Saturday, December 19, 2009
A few months back, I had some really annoying conversations at the work place about religion. People telling me I should believe in this and that, I am wrong for not believing and that my soul is dying because I don't believe in their Lord. In a casino for God's sake. I no longer have those conversations thank goodness.
But now arises another conversation.
GAY MARRIAGE.
There are of course a few homosexuals in my department, but I really do not talk to them. The reason being, they have their own little world, and I am not about to get caught up in it. They are the political gay types, they know and attend every gay rights movement and talk nothing else but that. Which annoys the crap out of me.
Well, today they ganged up on me about it. They were talking about how they demand that people allow them their rights and everything. They want it now, they shouldn't have to wait, and that they are humans too. They called me a weak minded person for being apathetic about the issue, and they said I should be worried. And be concerned about New York and their issue of being denied the right to same sex marriage.
And this was my argument:
Worry about what? I can't even find a long term boyfriend as it is, why worry about MY marriage?
Why does my life have to revolve around marriage? As much as I would like equality between the straight and queer community, why am I going to fight for it for most of my free time and be an angry person for people not liking my sexual preference? I deal with enough angry people as it is, why be an angry person myself?
Why do I have to worry about New York? We live in California, and this whole Same-sex marriage being denied and making people feel shit is so last summer for us. It's nothing new.
---These little arguments I made were more in a joking matter, they got butt hurt and started talking down to me, so my serious arguments were:
-If you are so worried about equality and respect, why are you harassing me with your opinions? Why are you telling me that I am wrong for being apathetic? Aren't we on the same team here? You people are creating a segregation within our own sub community by pointing fingers at me and telling me and other people that are less involved wrong. It's like the straight community telling us that we're wrong for liking the same gender!
-You're fighting for marriage, but is that it? Do you fully understand what you are fighting for when you fight for Same-sex marriage? It's not only the fact that you are denied marriage okay, being able to marry is a symbol of acceptance in the society. It's just not the benefits you are fighting for.
After this, they let up. They left me alone, told me I had a good point and just left it at that.
Honestly I'm starting not to care about the marriage issue.
I'm accepting the fact that right now may not be the time, and the in the near future, people will learn.
The US has actually come a long way with gay rights, from actually recognizing them and turning them in to a national discussion. As harsh as the outcome, it's still an improvement as opposed to other countries.
In other countries, it's a matter if homosexuals should even exist (I.E. Uganda.)
Work always has me talking about weird things. I guess I notice that in arguments I can fend for myself.
But now arises another conversation.
GAY MARRIAGE.
There are of course a few homosexuals in my department, but I really do not talk to them. The reason being, they have their own little world, and I am not about to get caught up in it. They are the political gay types, they know and attend every gay rights movement and talk nothing else but that. Which annoys the crap out of me.
Well, today they ganged up on me about it. They were talking about how they demand that people allow them their rights and everything. They want it now, they shouldn't have to wait, and that they are humans too. They called me a weak minded person for being apathetic about the issue, and they said I should be worried. And be concerned about New York and their issue of being denied the right to same sex marriage.
And this was my argument:
Worry about what? I can't even find a long term boyfriend as it is, why worry about MY marriage?
Why does my life have to revolve around marriage? As much as I would like equality between the straight and queer community, why am I going to fight for it for most of my free time and be an angry person for people not liking my sexual preference? I deal with enough angry people as it is, why be an angry person myself?
Why do I have to worry about New York? We live in California, and this whole Same-sex marriage being denied and making people feel shit is so last summer for us. It's nothing new.
---These little arguments I made were more in a joking matter, they got butt hurt and started talking down to me, so my serious arguments were:
-If you are so worried about equality and respect, why are you harassing me with your opinions? Why are you telling me that I am wrong for being apathetic? Aren't we on the same team here? You people are creating a segregation within our own sub community by pointing fingers at me and telling me and other people that are less involved wrong. It's like the straight community telling us that we're wrong for liking the same gender!
-You're fighting for marriage, but is that it? Do you fully understand what you are fighting for when you fight for Same-sex marriage? It's not only the fact that you are denied marriage okay, being able to marry is a symbol of acceptance in the society. It's just not the benefits you are fighting for.
After this, they let up. They left me alone, told me I had a good point and just left it at that.
Honestly I'm starting not to care about the marriage issue.
I'm accepting the fact that right now may not be the time, and the in the near future, people will learn.
The US has actually come a long way with gay rights, from actually recognizing them and turning them in to a national discussion. As harsh as the outcome, it's still an improvement as opposed to other countries.
In other countries, it's a matter if homosexuals should even exist (I.E. Uganda.)
Work always has me talking about weird things. I guess I notice that in arguments I can fend for myself.
I agree that your (gay) coworkers are wrong for attacking you on this issue. Not every gay man needs to plaster the back of his car with pro-gay bumper stickers and wave a rainbow flag all the time. I'm all for gay marriage, but I don't run around talking about it all the time. I guess I might if I was in a committed relationship with a man. And maybe (hopefully) that will be an issue for me some day.
But I'm a bit more disturbed by your religious coworkers telling you that your wrong for not believing the same thing that they do. Do they attack Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and Hindu people as well (I'm assuming that they're Christians)? Or are those groups excluded because they have some "belief"? I've lived in a few closets in my time (gay and atheist). There are several people I work with that I would never tell about my theological beliefs. We live in a backwards world - we're judged for our beliefs and attractions, not by our accomplishments and actions (that rhymes).
I like your points about same-sex marriage. I think I tend to focus on the benefits side when I think of same-sex marriage and arguments for it (call it the pragmatist in me).
These activists if they can be called that... I wonder if they are "good activists". Their persuasive abilities don't seem to be all that pleasant. It's supposed to be about bringing people together under a cause... not seeing who can commit to the greatest degree to the cause.
Like NewLeaf, I don't run around advocating for gay marriage, but that may be because it's legal here. I will say, however, that I will and still have to defend the same-sex marriage issue, if it comes up (since we won it more through the courts rather than by popular vote... which some people don't like).
I wish I new more about American politics and how it works...
Props to you for your awesome rebuttals. *pats Masa on the back*
Well to be honest, I don't know much about American politics myself. I'm apathetic about politics in general (I'm an artist who doesn't give a ****) but from what I see, California's same-sex marriage law was decided by popular vote and New York's was decided by court. Which both resulted in no same-sex marriage allowed in both places. I don't know which is worse because on one end, it shows the opinion from majority of voters in California, but in New York it was decided by the little group of political figures.
I don't want to speak for the US as whole when I say that it's different for us in terms of thinking of benefits, because it really is also the benefit that should be worried about.
But on my perspective, since we are denied same-sex marriages, it just proves that some people don't think we are worthy of the same rights as they have, just because of our preference. So fighting for marriage here in the US, to me at least, isn't just fighting for benefits and the right to marry, we're fighting to be accepted in the world as a whole. Because really, when it comes down to it, it's just like racial discrimination. But that's an obvious fact. .
I definitely am all for Same-sex marriage. But I too do not plaster it all over my windshield, get tattoos, and make a ruckus over it. I believe there are other ways of protesting, explaining what you think of it, learning to accept others' opinions and just be a civil person about it in general. I am not a fan of picketing for it or making a scene. You will never hear me chant "We're here, we're queer, get used to it" because to me, that isn't a good argument for anything we stand for.
As for the religious stance, I don't know where I fall. Agnostic maybe? But I guess I lean more towards the atheism, although to be honest, I don't know much about that at all either. I just know I don't believe in whatever people try to make me believe because I don't see it the way they do.
And you guessed it, they're Christians. Christian card dealers. Funny isn't it?
Anyways, that's my whole take on the situation too, I hate when people thank God before the person who made it happen for them. When I see people in poverty get a food donation, it kind of makes me mad to hear them say, thank GOD, and not the donor.
Isn't it funny how politics and religion seem to fuck everyone's day up?
Yes, religion and politics are already so complicated in and of themselves. And we've seen how they mix, especially with regard to same-sex marriage.
Thanking God instead of the person who helped you is kind of weird isn't it? I will say I have thanked what I like to call "the universe" when things just go right in unpredictable ways, which probably tells you about my relative detachment from any formalized religion.
Omg, I just got the Christian card dealers comment you made. Hahaha, I'm a bit slow today. It does seem oxymoronic doesn't it?
I agree on thanking the universe for things that pan out nicely as a whole, but I will thank the person who did the good deed for me first before anything else.
And Christian card dealers get on my nerves. I get annoyed when people thank god at the casino too.
Yes - thank the person responsible. It reminds me of football or basketball players who thank god or jesus after they win a game. I'm not a believer, but if you do believe, do you think that god is pulling the strings at your basketball game, but letting everything go to shit in Afghanistan? Or letting children starve in Africa? But he's all over your 3 point shot.